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What a bunch of malarky, right wing-nut spewings, attempting to pass itself off as the champion of freedom, squealing about a socialist state.
The original topic, why would anyone afford credibility towards a site which proclaims itself a bastion of freedom, while pushing the idea that every organization that has fought for freedom, has safeguarded freedom, were tyrannical isn't even addressed in your ramblings.
Instead of addressing this question, the original poster, dishonest to the end, attempts to divert the question by questioning his opponents intelligence, his punctuation, and now his commitment towards freedom, and the rights of others to have that same freedom.
Robert, You should be ashamed of yourself.
You start out intimating that I have somehow pushed to have revoked these folks right to say or publish on the internet anything they please.
You, I, and everyone else here Knows that's not the truth.
On can easily see intent when one reads the quotes you included. It is no secret that such people as you defend, their teachings, their philosophies have more in common with the propagandists and fear mongers of the last century who convinced whole populations that they alone were the bastions of freedom, the hope of the people and the champions of the downtrodden, people who then turned around, once in power and profoundly enslaved those same populations, naming themselves such high minded lofty names such as the National Socialist Party, or The Union of Soviet Socialist Republics or Peoples Republic of China - and much like the sites and people you defend, these places and peoples were enslaved by their hopes and fears, enslaved by people who "knew what's best" for them.
You cry about "entire socialist understructure of our government". Yet one gathers you haven't a clue what socialism means.
When you see the roads in your town, city, state, nation, able to move people and materials anywhere, at anytime, do you denounce them as the socialist endeavor they are, or do you embrace them as one of America's modern wonders, a tool that helps America grow, and thrive?
When you look at the police officer who just saved your property, or life, who is always there when you need them, do you denounce them as the socialist tools they are for taking community funds as pay, for the entire community pays them - or do you embrace them
as one of America's heroes, who like their brethren, the Fireman, the emergency responder, the soldier, the sailor, and everyone who works to protect and safeguard the community -where society as a whole pays for them, unlike mall cops and night watchmen who are hired and paid for by individuals, these folks are part of a socialist system where everyone pays to benefit.
In America, as was intended by the founders of this country, As our technology and resources have grown, so too has our governments responsibility towards its citizens.
Of what use is a government that simply exists as an afterthought? One that has no power, or authority? Ours has what we, the people, will it to have. Via the Constitution, the guidelines and boundaries were established, and the three branches of Government set in place. Given unto each of them were tasks and responsibilities, balanced against each other.The fourth leg of this government was not part of the government - The newspapers.
Times change, technology advances, The newspaper became the news media, television, radio and the internet supplement or surpass what newspapers alone used to do.
Businesses too have evolved. Instead of a single business owned by one man employing a few laborers, you now have great unions of businesses, called corporations and multinational corporations, involved in the manufacture of goods and services for every facet an Americans lives, including prescription drugs, and hospitals.
These advances create the need for new laws, new organizations, and new protections.
What individual can hope, in a dispute with a corporation wielding the resources of billions of dollars, to prevail in such an unequal contest?
What worker can dream in a dispute with a corporation wielding the resources of billions of
dollars, to be treated fairly in such an unequal contest?
The previous hundred years taught us that power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely.
Many of the organizations you proclaim to be "Bogus" help safeguard the freedoms of such folks, and assure them some measure of equality-Equality before the law, equality in representation, equality at the voting booth - These are the entities you would silence, even as you accuse me of attempting to silence your right-wing organizations that really do seek to silence those they hate and disagree with.
Our government has added amendments to our Constitution to address these things. As a nation we have tried to make our constitution grow to meet the challenges of a changing world. Anyone who thinks we can devolve back to a pastoral, agrarian society which existed when our Constitution was created is either mentally ill or stupid.
There isn't enough land to support the current population if it were utilized as small farms, people would starve.
We either change and adapt to live in a modern world, or we die.
Jefferson himself wrote concerning the constitution:
No work of man is perfect. It is inevitable that, in the course of
time, the imperfections of a written Constitution will become apparent.
Moreover, the passage of time will bring changes in society which a
Constitution must accommodate if it is to remain suitable for the
nation. It was imperative, therefore, that a practicable means of
amending the Constitution be provided.
"Nothing is more likely than that [the] enumeration of powers is
defective. This is the ordinary case of all human works. Let us then
go on perfecting it by adding by way of amendment to the Constitution
those powers which time and trial show are still wanting." --Thomas
Jefferson to Wilson Nicholas, 1803
"Our children will be as wise as we are and will establish in the
fulness of time those things not yet ripe for establishment." --Thomas
Jefferson to John Tyler, 1810. ME 12:394
"Some men look at constitutions with sanctimonious reverence and
deem them like the ark of the covenant, too sacred to be touched. They
ascribe to the men of the preceding age a wisdom more than human and
suppose what they did to be beyond amendment. I knew that age well; I
belonged to it and labored with it. It deserved well of its country.
It was very like the present but without the experience of the present;
and forty years of experience in government is worth a century of
book-reading; and this they would say themselves were they to rise from
the dead." --Thomas Jefferson to Samuel Kercheval, 1816.
In your reply, you attempt to prove that the founding fathers would somehow disapprove of modern society.
I say, that as in most everything you advocate, you are wrong.
And it is funny you should list the writings of John Stuart Mill in your little tirade, as he is most famous for this quote:
Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people
are conservative. John Stuart Mill
While I pointed out that many organizations to attract the masses support, play upon the petty prides and fears of that population, and put the emotional key words into the title of their party, or their organization as a ploy to gain supporters who mindlessly equate such names with intent, you publish a posting that pretty much proves the veracity of my observations.
People, to avoid an in depth look at themselves, and their beliefs will attach themselves to such organizations who names reflect such beliefs and blindly accept as truths theories and tenets that if implemented in to the physical world, real life, would horrify them.
One need only look at the goals and the past histories of the organizations that you, and the websites you quote so disdainfully dismiss and abhor, to see that in each and everyone of them there is the willingness to uplift the human condition, to advocate fairness and equality, to promote the spread of news, of information, of education, and emancipation, to safeguard freedom and advocate a better life.
I do not see these goals, and these truths when I look at the sites you defend, nor do I advocate the silencing of those sites you defend, even as they advocate the destruction and silence of those organizations they hate as tryannical, teh organizations as shown in your picture and in their writings:
The newspapers, the
ACLU, PETA, UNIONS, NOW, Newsweek, President Obama, the peace symbol,
Pro-Choice,planned Parenthood, ABC, CBS, CNN, MSNBC, The New York
Times.
Do try to keep on topic next time, old boy, this dishonest ploy of attempting to divert attention from the ugliness you support really is so silly..
GuyFalkes wrote:
Pretty much akin to every movement that prefaces itself with "People" or "Freedom" and a host of other fine sounding adjectives while in reality desiring to impose its own twisted ideals on the populace they are trying to fool.
The Bolsheveks did this in 1917.
The Nazi's did this in the 1920's.
Europe was pulled down by this through-out the first half of the 1900's.
Oh damn!! We surely can't have that. How do you propose we stop these zealots from reading or producing these conservative websites? What are you suggesting? ...should we quash their patriotism before it gets out of hand? ...or just discredit them for thinking they were born freemen? ...or maybe classify them as domestic enemies, kind of like the Bolsheveks or Nazi's?
Can you even imagine the pandemonium if these "people" start gaining strength of numbers? I mean, the entire socialist understructure of our government, all that hard work for the last 40 years, would be turned topsy-turvy. But maybe it won't be so bad? I guess if they start forming groups, and calling themselves something stupid, like "tea parties," we could always just ridicule and threaten them, huh?
But OMG, what if they start losing faith in our beloved "statist" programs? If we don't stop them from talking about individual rights, personal responsibility, and personal accountability, we won't be able to keep them enslaved to our welfare system?! Everything is working so well with our current "social justice" system, don't you think?
What if they realize that all those groups like ACORN, SEIU, Rainbow Coalition, ACLU, etc. are bogus entities -- that they really coexist with government agencies, serving their own self-interests -- and that they're merely front groups for a Marxist/socialist agenda that's been very successful so far. If they quit trusting the government to protect their God-given rights, maybe they'll start listening to crazy libertarians like Ayn Rand, when she said, "The smallest minority on earth is the individual. Those who deny individual rights cannot claim to be defenders of minorities." Boy, that'll be tough to overcome.
What if they start reading, and educating themselves? It's going to be hard to keep them from finding all those old books. What if they actually read some of Marx and Engels' stuff, and realize why the Communist Manifesto never worked for Stalin, Lenin, or Mao? ...or how the message of "the evil rich man" was propagated by Marx's Das Kapital? What if Tocqueville's Democracy in America falls into some of their hands? What if the writings of John Stuart Mill starts getting passed around? Worse yet, what if they happen to get a hold of John Locke's books, and fully understand why Thomas Jefferson thought he was a genius?
Wow, I think it's going to be tough to shut them up, don't you? Telling them that words like "People" and "Freedom" are wrong to use -- well, that might work for a while -- but eventually it might start to make sense to some of them. What if they accidentally look at some of the words on our coins? After all, "Liberty" and "In God We Trust" are actually just as dangerous, if not more so, aren't they? What if they find some kind of twisted pride in being called "Patriot," and won't shut up? ...or refuse to give up their ridiculous old, traditional, conservative beliefs?
I don't know, is it even possible to convince everyone that terms like "truth," "liberty," and "freedom" are actually evil incarnate? It seems like there's a couple major obstacles, that no amount of government control or media attention, is going to be able to counteract. First, is that antiquated Constitution of the United States, with its peculiar beginning, "We The People." How on earth do you propose we stop them from thinking it pertains to them running the government? ...Especially as an honest Republic, instead of a mob-rule democracy? What if they start demanding the same level of accountability from the government, as they show personally in their everyday lives? Acually, that wouldn't be so bad on its own, but I think maybe too many of those "patriotic" fools have started to catch on to what the founding fathers actually meant when they wrote the Constitution. How, pray tell, can our current crop of wimpy politicians, with all their corruption and quick fixes, keep thinking that Americans will ignore Jefferson, Hamilton, and Adams forever?
"On every question of construction, carry ourselves back to the time when the Constitution was adopted, recollect the spirit manifested in the debates and instead of trying what meaning may be squeezed out of the text or invented against it, conform to the probable one in which it was passed." --Thomas Jefferson
"The present Constitution is the standard to which we are to cling. Under its banners, bona fide must we combat our political foes -- rejecting all changes but through the channel itself provides for amendments." --Alexander Hamilton, letter to James Bayard, 1802
"[G]iving [Congress] a distinct and independent power to do any act they please which may be good for the Union, would render all the preceding and subsequent enumerations of power completely useless. It would reduce the whole [Constitution] to a single phrase, that of instituting a Congress with power to do whatever would be for the good of the United States; and as sole judges of the good or evil, it would be also a power to do whatever evil they please. Certainly, no such universal power was meant to be given them." --Thomas Jefferson
"A constitution founded on these principles introduces knowledge among the people, and inspires them with a conscious dignity becoming freemen; a general emulation takes place, which causes good humor, sociability, good manners, and good morals to be general. That elevation of sentiment inspired by such a government, makes the common people brave and enterprising. That ambition which is inspired by it makes them sober, industrious, and frugal." --John Adams, Thoughts on Government, 1776
GuyFalkes wrote:
Obviously, the Freedom, and Rights they hold dear at that site do not include the same for non-whites, women, the press, the media, the working individual.
No, you're wrong. The freedom and rights they hold dear at this site -- as well as those of most other common patriots -- includes all Americans. It's obvious that all types of "people" are well-represented -- everything the same, for non-whites, women, and anyone else who stands for America's principles (you know, that whole "E Pluribus Unum" thing).
Have you grown so accustomed to your foolish caricature? ...or do you make such ignorant statements without fully engaging both brain cells?
Robert  ...gratia autem Dei, sum id quod sum
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